IS IT TRUE ? ~ Anything out of the ordinary ~ Post here

Your IQ has nothing to do with being religious or not, because wheater you like it or not, everyone believes something .. if you don't believe in God, that means you believe something (that god does not exist) if you follow me.

Carl: I also read somewhere that many of the brightest people were freemasons .. how does that compare ? I have been checking into freemasonry and theosofy and that is not by any means a normal christian belief ! What they believe is kept secret but they do believe - for instance - that there are two gods, the one we call God (adonai) wich they call the god of darkness and another god called Lucifer (yes, you have read this well) and they say Luci stands for light, so it is obvious wich of the two they think is their true God. You may find this exeptional but in many so called apocrypha like the dead sea scroll collections there are writings explaining what really happened in the garden of eve and how various other gods and forces partook in creating the human as he is today. Offcourse those writings have been rejected and we have to ask, if the bible is a library .. then why were only a certain select writings admitted to the bible and as I said before : who did the selecting and on what criteria ? It was the counsil of Nicea as you can read in wikipedia but who were these men and what did they believe ? It really matters because if certain parts of the truth are left out, what you get is a half truth and my personal saying is: Half a truth is a triple lie .. because it looks like the truth and it can apear true but the other half is missing. Do not take my word for it if you don't believe this, do some research.

What "good" churches are you referring to igit ? You local church maybe ? but since too long ago all churches fell under the rule of the catholic church and the truth of the sinfullness of that church is astounding and they still don't know half of it. If we truely understood who jesus was and what goodness is, we could start a new church but there is so much confusion in this world .. it seems the devil wants to make sure we don't get it.

thats exactly it 2D4, the devil doesnt want us to get it. Thats why he gets the churches angry at each other and end up falling apart.

IQ doesn't have anything to do with it... every side has its own bright people.

Hat, saying being religious is for the weak and that everyone wants to be weak is just plain retarded. Weak? Do you think Jesus was weak, that he died on the cross after being brutally punished and beaten with crown of thorns on his head? Do you think that the disciples were weak, that almost all of them were persecuted and killed because of their beliefs? Do you think the martyrs around the world are weak, that they died for what they believed in and wouldn't give up on God. Do you know how much strength that takes? I'll say those Christians are a lot stronger than atheists.

And who wants to know that there is nothing after death? How about murderers, rapists, thieves, robbers they don't want there to be anything after death. They would like to think that they wouldn't be eternally punished for their sins.

retarded means slow, so yes it is retarded, because it slows down evolution, i think.

Interresting points IGIT

It is important to develop the skill of looking at reality through someone else his eyes - not to agree with what you see - but to understand so you can see all those people just do what they believe is justified. Jesus was by no means weak .. he has been called weak because he was forgiving .. and in this dog eat dog world this is considdered weak, we are just not ready for his supreme wisdom. Martyrs for instance are often called terrorists, don't get me wrong: they blow themselves up in a bus so they are terrorists, no discussion there .. but in their own mind they sacrifice themselves for a divine course, so from that perspective they are willing to die for a cause. No one will do something like that unless great unjustice is done to their people or country .. no exeptions there. If your country is under siege, you will grab your riffle and helmet and defend it with your life, in that case you are called a soldier but when other nations are supressed or occupied by a foreign power they do the very same thing with the means they have at their disposal, only difference, we call it terrorism, not fair in my opinion. Sorry I'm a bit off track here

What happens to people after they die is a long story to discuss I have read a lot on the subject but I do think that people who do bad things will not only have to answer to god but also to themselves .. there is no one who will not feel remorse, when he knows what he did was wrong. In the existence after he is dead he will probably linger in this realm or a world close to the earth sphere to spend time doing pennance for his wrongs. That means, no virgins, no fruits and no rest for the wicked

TheHat wrote:

retarded means slow, so yes it is retarded, because it slows down evolution, i think.

do you only write this to avoid the subject? If not, then tell me what you think of it.

what subject? do i think all relegious people are weak? No!
people in general need to stop, and think. going on with your life works but you will never get any satisfaction without thinking. (of course your always thinking, but...) stop and think. is god real? what are hints that he could be real? Of course, this would all be crazy talk 1000 years ago, but 1000 years ago technology was not what it is today. they were making up a tales to say why this exists. now we know why the earth spins, why wind blows, what starts are etc, all because of science. we also know, not for a fact (because nothing is fact) that god does not exist. no one knows what the afterlife is, i think its nothing, but some people believe in heaven. not the most logical choice, but go ahead and believe it. i would be burned 1000 years ago for saying this. good thing times have changed and we know have a better sense of what this world is. But some people want to refuse that. if youve read to hear write bump, and now moving on. Why would you? it seems logical, alot more logical than a soul, something doctors have never found, or god, who was not in the clouds when we went to the moon. wouldent it be nice to have an afterlife? sipping some holy water, chillin, playing rr with a full lobby, that would be great, to do that for eternity. but we cant. its time to grow up and realize santas not real. nor is god. i dont want to grow up either, but i have to

im not saying religion is bad, it has many good lessons. my dad grew up in a very religious household, so dont say "ohh duurrr you dont know nofing about religion geezus will come!!1!"

sorry, but he wont.

bump...

Just as much as you say we can't prove God exists you cannot prove that he doesn't.

Of course God is real, I've seen his works, I've seen miracles in my own life. But of course you'll never believe me. You'll never believe Wolfy, who said he heard God's voice. You'll never believe 2D4 who said he saw an angel.

Where in the Bible does it say why the Earth spins, why wind blows, etc? It doesn't say, because the people that wrote the books in the Bible didn't know, but they didn't make up stories about that, so why would they "make up" a story on how the world was created?
BTW heaven is in a whole other dimension that we cannot comprehend, that is how He can see everything we do and know everything we know without us seeing him. Think of a 3D world looking into a 2D world, the 3D world can see them, but the 2D world cannot see the things in the 3D world.

How can you think we don't have souls? How can "science" explain right from wrong? Even little children know right from wrong.

Wouldn't it be nice to believe in an afterlife? Um... not for you. Because for you, if there is an afterlife your going to Hell, simply because you have denied God and do not believe in Him. But I guess you have nothing to worry about, because it doesn't exist right? There's no way your going to die one day, face the Judge, and be condemned to Hell forever in eternal pain.

Science, its not even scientific. There has been so many "scientific facts" that have been disproved by "science".

Evolutionists believe that the world can from a big bang, and the big bang came from another universe that came from the multiverse and that universe came from another big bang, on and on and on. Or they simply believe that the world came from the big bang and before that there was nothing. So either you believe that the world came from nothing, or you believe that the cycle of universes have been going on forever, yet you don't believe that the universe could be created by someone that has lived forever.

wow... youre right... science cant prove it... ive messed up my whole life...
im gonna look into getting a bible, because all of what you said now makes sense to me now. thanks, youve changed my life.

Lmao

So many interresting points .. I don't know where to start.

I am a little worried about your signature poem hat .. seems you don't
believe in God, fine but then what makes you sure Satan exists ? have you
seen him maybe ? Chanting that name can bring no good. I also have
doubts about the getting buisy with the furniture .. not sure I need to know
all that.

At this point no one can prove anything, not even science, just because
science cannot prove something, that means nothing, they have to dis-prove
something to rule it out. Have they disproven God or the soul ? Science
always seems to be catching up with reality .. reality is simply always
ahead. Life is brilliant .. intelligent and very well designed. Our brains are
extremely fast multicore cpu's that run at speeds beyond anything else. It
is safe to asume some type of intelligence is the shaping force behind all of
this, it is simply too smart to be a random consequence of coincidental sub-
-stances coinciding.

When I was in school, i was 16, the teacher posed a question, asking us to
make a theory explaining why an organism would develop in a certain way
under certain conditions while other specimen of the same species remained
the same or developped other traits. I told him I thought it was nerve -
guided, so for instance when a bird would hit a tree often, his nervous system
would tell his body to make a thicker skin and more sturdy bones to be able
to survive and that if this stimulus would last long, it would also alter the
genetic code to produce a lasting change in the bird. He told me: that is soooo
creative ! but .. wrong ! and he told us how darwin found out how species
accomodate and change (If you don't know what darwins idea was you should
have payed attention in school) Now it turns out that latest scientific discoveries
found that exteme or longlasting nerve stimulation or emotional traumatic states
can change the genetic make up in small babies in the womb of pregnant women
The research was done on women who witnessed the 9-11 disaster, it turned out
the infants had a tougher nervous system and constitution, better able to cope
with stress and were emotionally distached and showed little empathy for their
surroundings. Turns out I was sort of right all along .. not bad .. I beat Darwin at
age 16 .. (long story sorry)

It is easy to be fooled by believing only what we can see, so much is obscured
, especcially when you do not have an open mind.

The remark about little children is special IGIT, did jesus not say that we would
not enter his kingdom unless we became like little children ?

It is not anyones place to judge about who will go to hell or to heaven, that is
reserved for God alone and only he has the full HD 3D oversight of someone's
souls progress or decline and the consequences of his deeds in many, many
lives .. I do believe we live more then once, just my opinion.

Regarding the 2D vs 3D idea .. I saw a youtube video once about how the fact
that the earth is round and revolving around the sun was described in bible
texts from the old testament and how only much later we found out it isn't flat
for ourselves. The very fact that all previous popes preached that the earth was
flat and that everyone saying otherwise should be burned should have led all of
humanity to conclude that these popes and their churches are fake representa-
-tives of God and that we should not credit them any longer. Sadly even today
humanity does not have the common sense to add one plus one

I believe in god and satan. I am a born-again christian. I wasnt joking.

I believe you ..

I also believe in God and Satan .. that means, I believe Satan exists too. I am tempted to tell you what i experienced at your age when I was listening to a led zeppelin - stairway to heaven - tape backwards (backmasked song) My teacher from school had done a lesson on the subject to warn us and lend me the tape (we had tapes back then lol) I have made my choice, I hope it's the right one, i hope I will stick with it. Be carefull, a lot is at stake here.

Can someone explain to me what a born again christian is ? I tried google but I failed to understand.

By the way: I did not see an angel in broad- daylight .. I did a reincarnation trance session, and saw many things, amongst wich the angel, it was very real though

Its someone who sinned alot and then chose to redo there life, as a christian.

get in nfs brah

I love the way you explain everything in three words

Maybe, I will see

TheHat wrote:

Carl, that makes sense and all but saying that the smartest people are religious, was true. Was. because 100 years ago no one believed in evolution.

Darwin's On the Origin of Species was published in 1859. That's over 150 years. The idea of evolution very much predated Darwin, by a long shot.

To quote from John Gribbin's The Scientists: A History of Science:

There was nothing new about the idea of evolution by the time Charles Darwin came on the scene. Evolutionary ideas of a sort can be traced back to the Ancient Greeks, and even within the time frame covered by this book, there were notable discussions about the way species change by Francis Bacon [known for establishing the scientific method of inquiry based on experimentation and inductive reasoning, another Christian scientist] in 1620 and a little later by the mathematician Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz [known for establishing the principles of calculus, alongside Newton, and refining the binary number system that computers use, another Christian scientist].

Evolutionary ideas have existed in the Muslim world since medieval times. The Muslim scholar, Al-Jahiz (781–868), who lived during the 8th and 9th centuries, was the first of the Muslim biologists and philosophers to develop an early theory of evolution. He proposed a scheme of animal evolution that entailed natural selection, environmental determinism and possibly the inheritance of acquired characteristics. He speculated on the influence of the environment on animals, considered the effects of the environment on the likelihood of an animal to survive, and first described the struggle for existence, a precursor to natural selection.

It is a common mistake to think that the standard, orthodox interpretation of Genesis before Darwin was a literal one, when in fact, even numerous early Christian scholars and theologians, such as Origen of Alexandria, emphasized the poetic and figurative style of the first chapter of Genesis. Saint Augustine, one of the most famous and influential of Christian theologians in history, did not believe Genesis should be interpreted literally either. The notable early Jewish scholar, Maimonides, stated very clearly that Biblical literalism should not trump empirical observation.

Second, Michael Faraday (1791–1867), the father of electromagnetism, Gregor Mendel (1822–1884), father of genetics, James Clerk Maxwell (1831–1879), father of modern physics and electromagnetic theory, Louis Pasteur (1822–1895), father of microbiology and immunology, William Thompson (1824–1907), father of thermodynamics, Georg Cantor (1845–1918), father of set theory and transfinite mathematics, Max Planck (1858–1947), father of quantum theory, John Ambrose Fleming (1849–1945), father of vacuum tubes and the right-hand rule, Georges Lemaitre (1894-1966), astronomer and father of the Big Bang theory, Kurt Gödel (1906–1978), logician and father of Gödel's incompleteness theorems, Freeman Dyson (1923), theoretical physicist and mathematician known for his work in quantum field theory and nuclear engineering, Frank Tipler (1947), mathematical physicist and cosmologist, John D. Barrow (1952), cosmologist and theoretical physicist and mathematician, John Lennox, professor of mathematics and philosopher of science, Francis Collins (1950), American physician and geneticist noted for his discoveries of disease genes and director of the Human Genome Project, founder and president of the BioLogos Foundation, appointed to the Pontifical Academy of Sciences by Pope Benedict XVI, director of the National Institutes of Health in Maryland, and a strong advocate of evolutionary theory.

See this article on the Biologos Forum: How was the Genesis account of creation interpreted before Darwin?

TheHat wrote:

Im not an athiest, i highly disaprove of IQ, but im pretty sure athiests have 2 points higher than religious people.

Despite the fact that out of the "100 Scientists Who Shaped World History," 39 are confirmed Christians, compared with only 5 for atheists, and out of the "100 Scientists Who Changed the World," 35 are confirmed Christians, compared with only 4 for atheists?

TheHat wrote:

im not saying relegious people are weak. im saying everyones wants to be weak. everyones strong but who really wants to know that after death there is nothing?

Alright, I understand.

2D4 wrote:

Carl: I also read somewhere that many of the brightest people were freemasons .. how does that compare ?

I didn't say all of the brightest people were Christians, but that many (if not most) are and were.

2D4 wrote:

I have been checking into freemasonry and theosofy and that is not by any means a normal christian belief !

Are you deviating from orthodoxy, or simply exploring? Hopefully the latter.

Also IGIT, well said. It's quite ironic that many atheists (not talking about you TheHat) think that Christianity is for "the weak," when the evidence of history clearly points in another direction. As Fyodor Dostoevsky once wrote (and the great writer C.S. Lewis emphasized), if God does not exist, then everything is permissible. There is no punishment for people like Stalin and Mao, who did not believe someone watched over their atrocities. And there is no shelter for the righteous.

But there are punishments for horrible people like stalin! He has to live with himself, for the rest of his life. Anyways, how is hell a punishment, surfin on lava all day and the best barbeques in town! Also rock concerts daily, because clearly all rock music is satanic.

Carl read my (extensive) post, the answers to your questions are there. As far as orthodox applies .. what kind of orthodox ? Roman catholic ? In that case I deviate ! I want to save my soul ..

Not sure what point you want to make with darwin .. for me personally I see no conflict believing in God and natural selection at the same time. God just takes his time, a lil more time then some biblescholars would have us believe. No one seems impressed that I was smarter than my teacher at age 16, O well

TheHat wrote:

But there are punishments for horrible people like stalin! He has to live with himself, for the rest of his life.

What do you mean 'he has to live with himself'? He never felt any regret for what he did. Same for Hitler. Same for Mao. Same for Pol Pot.

They didn't think anyone watched over their atrocities.

TheHat wrote:

Also rock concerts daily, because clearly all rock music is satanic.

Rock music is not 'satanic.' Where did you get that idea from?

2D4 wrote:

Carl read my (extensive) post, the answers to your questions are there. As far as orthodox applies .. what kind of orthodox ? Roman catholic ? In that case I deviate ! I want to save my soul ..

No, I mean 'orthodoxy,' with a lower case 'o,' not the Orthodox Church or any other particular denomination. This includes the Holy Trinity, Jesus being fully human and fully divine (Christology), and other pieces of fundamental Christian doctrine.

Here are some examples of heresies that violate orthodoxy:
Adoptionism - God granted Jesus powers and then adopted him as a Son.
Albigenses - Reincarnation and two gods: one good and other evil.
Apollinarianism - Jesus divine will overshadowed and replaced the human.
Arianism - Jesus was a lesser, created being.
Docetism - Jesus was divine, but only seemed to be human.
Donatism - Validity of sacraments depends on character of the minister.
Gnosticism - Dualism of good and bad and special knowledge for salvation.
Kenosis - Jesus gave up some divine attributes while on earth.
Modalism - God is one person in three modes.
Monarchianism - God is one person.
Monophysitism - Jesus had only one nature: divine.
Nestorianism - Jesus was two persons.
Patripassionism - The Father suffered on the cross
Pelagianism - Man is unaffected by the fall and can keep all of God's laws.
Semi-Pelagianism - Man and God cooperate to achieve man's salvation.
Socinianism - Denial of the Trinity. Jesus is a deified man.
Subordinationism - The Son is lesser than the Father in essence and or attributes.
Tritheism - the Trinity is really three separate gods.

2D4 wrote:

Not sure what point you want to make with darwin .. for me personally I see no conflict believing in God and natural selection at the same time. God just takes his time, a lil more time then some biblescholars would have us believe. No one seems impressed that I was smarter than my teacher at age 16, O well

I agree, I'm a theistic evolutionist.

hm... im pretty sure Carl is smarter than all of his teachers combined!

iN GOD I TRUST™ wrote:

hm... im pretty sure Carl is smarter than all of his teachers combined!

Please I owe everything to my teachers and mentors.

The mediocre teacher tells. The good teacher explains. The superior teacher demonstrates. The great teacher inspires. ~ William Arthur Ward

That is impressive. When I read your description of orthodoxy I cannot disagree, so i must be agreeing, yet when i read the so called atrocities I can't see where they contradict with orthodox beliefs or I have to simply admit I see them as true. Who decided wich is wich anyway ? God ? No .. a number of falible men who all believed they had the eternal truth at their disposal .. just like we are doing in this forum ! so, it is all rather questionable to me. I will mark the ones I disagree on red and those I agree with green. Yellow for things that do not make sense to me. Orange: wrong and questionable. Olive: Right but with a questionmark or sidenote. I can explain myself on request.

Adoptionism - God granted Jesus powers and then adopted him as a Son.
Albigenses - Reincarnation and two gods: one good and other evil. (These should be two ism's really, they are not logically connected in any way)
Apollinarianism - Jesus divine will overshadowed and replaced the human. (this one I didn't get. Will he overshadow or be overshadowed ?)
Arianism - Jesus was a lesser, created being. (lesser than who ?)
Docetism - Jesus was divine, but only seemed to be human.
Donatism - Validity of sacraments depends on character of the minister. (this is so true)
Gnosticism - Dualism of good and bad and special knowledge for salvation. (this is a rather disputable description)
Kenosis - Jesus gave up some divine attributes while on earth.
Modalism - God is one person in three modes.(who knows)
Monarchianism - God is one person. (> there is only one true god)
Monophysitism - Jesus had only one nature: divine.
Nestorianism - Jesus was two persons.
Patripassionism - The Father suffered on the cross (In a way he did)
Pelagianism - Man is unaffected by the fall and can keep all of God's laws. (He theoretically could obey his laws, he just chooses not to. Yet he is affected by the fall .. who would not be?)
Semi-Pelagianism - Man and God cooperate to achieve man's salvation. (this is very true)
Socinianism - Denial of the Trinity. Jesus is a deified man. (how does this contradict ? he was made holy and at the same time a part of the holy trinity)
Subordinationism - The Son is lesser than the Father in essence and or attributes.
Tritheism - the Trinity is really three separate gods. (I don't know but it's possible)


So in short. I can fit my beliefs in the idea of the Holy trinity and the fact that jesus was both human and divine and see the green marking on the rest of the things I beleive, So how can these other views be a contradiction ? They only apear to be on first sight. this happens a lot in life too. We think we disagree but mostly want the very same thing. These misudertandings lead to conflict and pain, we should try to understand the danger of looking for where people disagree instead of focussing on where they have common ground. The outcome is drastically different

Arianism - Jesus was a lesser, created being. means that he was inferior to god, like a sort of undergod.

By the way. All of Gods word is NOT in the bible. If you think
about it logically that only makes sense. Here is an example



Pay attention also to what he sais in the last part

of course not, i don't need to watch a video to know that...

2D4 I see a lot of contradictions in your thoughts. Like how you believe in Adoptionism but not Arianism. Also its strange that you say you agree on something and then later state, "who knows"... Um... I understand that you believe it's possible but I don't understand why you would believe something is true just because it is possible (kind of like you believing the fall of the twin towers was not as it seemed). I also thought you did not believe in Albigenses as I have already shown you that the Bible clearly states that you only have one life and you seemed to agree with me... It's also strange that you believe there are two gods but you also believe there is only one true God. I could go on, but I'm getting bored... so... yea...

These are clear examples of what I was trying to say: It only appears to not make sense ! How are the arianism and adoptionism contradicting ? I don't see it. By the way, I didn't make sense of the explanation of arianism that's why I marked it orange. I don't believe something to be true because it's possible.. I simply believe that it's possibly true and admit the fact that I do not know ! You can show me any part in the bible but I do believe we all have many lives. I have seen them for myself so how can I deny that ? So, I never agreed on that. How does 9/11 get mixed in here ? The only thing incommon is that I do not know for sure but I have a theory. And lastly why does it not make sense to believe in two gods and beleive there is one true God ? It just means there is one real God and another lesser god or false god. So, in return I feel it is you who is not making any sense

Adoptionism... Jesus was (is) lesser than God but God gave him power
Arianism... Jesus is lesser than God

Ex: Modalism - God is one person in three modes.(who knows) you marked as true

"You can show me any part in the bible but I do believe we all have many lives." I guess it just shows that you waver back and forth... because I clearly recall that you stated that you believed me after some debate.

9/11 got "mixed in" here while I was saying that it was strange that you agreed with something you didn't fully understand, and only thought was a possibility.

I suppose there is only one true God but there are many false gods, which in "false" meaning not true, or not real, therefore there is only one God, as in one true God... so I guess you're right on that, but that is a common belief and I am also not sure why it is included in Albigenses